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[Music]

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wow

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts kate valentine

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and ferocia prepare to have your

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paradigms

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shifted into truth questioned

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and now shattered reality shattered

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reality

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podcast

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here we are today is

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october 23rd 2018

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and i am ferusha and we are a shattered

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reality podcast

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now once again unfortunately

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my partner in crime miss kate valentine

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who wanted very much to be here today

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because she

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absolutely adored the book that we will

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largely be

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talking about on this particular podcast

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which i believe is lucky number 77

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and um we have a very wonderful guest

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today

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we also have uh had a lot of

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uh response to our last podcast which

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was the podcast with grant cameron

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the canadian ufo researcher

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who is was is and was a very very

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dedicated man so i respect him deeply

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but today's guest is also someone who is

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extraordinarily respectable from great

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britain

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we have mary rose

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barrington who has written a book

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about things that seem to

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have a life of their own the book is

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j-o-t-t which stands for

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just one of those things and

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it basically revolves around

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psychokinesis sometimes called

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telekinesis

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of mostly small objects so

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um please welcome

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mary rose barrington hello mary rose

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barrington

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hello ferusa may i call i yeah

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very nice to be with you thank you may i

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call you mary rose or what would you

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like me to do

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okay mary rose so um what we'd like to

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hear about

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first is a little bit about

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who you are and how you came

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to be a very uh

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important member of the

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society for psychical research in great

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well i i think i always was interested

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in things that were peculiar i think my

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older brother

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introduced me to ghost stories and that

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sort of thing

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but when i was 15 and

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browsing around the occult section of

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the oxford bookshop blackwell's

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i i saw a book called survival of

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man by sir oliver lodge well now i

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i did know that he was a great scientist

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and i thought well you know if he's

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written a book about

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survival maybe it's possible because i

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certainly didn't believe in any

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religious doctrines and that really

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started me off on psychical research

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because he really covered the whole

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field as well as really

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concentrating in some degree on the

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question of whether

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it's possible for the um

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the personality and the memory to

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survive

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death and have another kind of existence

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so i got into it at an early age and

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then

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when i was at oxford university there

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was a

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society and so i learned a lot from that

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and then later i drew i suppose about 10

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years later because i assumed

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that these people were all very learned

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so since i've discovered

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members of quite ordinary people

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so finally i joined the society of

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psychical research

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and really have been hooked on it ever

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since

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well i have two questions to ask about

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that

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what were you studying at oxford and

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when

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did you join srp

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um well actually i was i was reading

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english

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at the university but later actually

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on a more practical level i became

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a barrister and then later the solicitor

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now and and this is just to clear things

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up

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for our listeners who are not really

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that familiar with the legal system in

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great britain

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uh uh barristers and solicitors are two

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different kinds

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of of legal people

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in great britain and a barrister tries

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the case and a solicitor

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um right a barrister

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gives advice and he appears in court

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and he appears in the higher courts

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now a solicitor sits in an office

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dealing with people

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and also appears as an advocate

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in the lower courts okay

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okay that's that takes care of things

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because um i think that

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lots of americans read british

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literature

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and they come across the word barrister

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or solicitor

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and uh it gives them pause for thought

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confusing yes it is a bit confusing

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um so you've had a legal career then

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uh besides being a member of the srp

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oh yeah it's spr right i'm sorry i'm

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sorry

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that's pr yes um yes that's

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that's correct yes it's been been quite

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useful actually

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sometimes the lines of crust

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well clearly a legal mind is a mind that

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is very

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finely tuned to details and

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asking pertinent questions to um

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people who have claims of any sort

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well i think yes that is a point

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whereas scientists seem to be convinced

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that nothing happens that can't that

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can't be proved by science to have

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happened

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lawyers decide what is real by

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witnesses backing each other up the

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weight of evidence

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that tells you not um a principle

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the way science does but

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actually tells you about an event

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something that really happened

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and has to be explained

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indeed indeed and i might add

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that much of science

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not all of science but much of science

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tends to be uh related

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to uh the 3d world and

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equates brain with mind whereas

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philosophy and some of physics

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takes that into question but many

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scientists that or

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technicians more likely that deal on

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the more uh day-to-day level

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uh do not make that transfer that uh

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mind may be more than a physical gray

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matter between the ears

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well certainly if you take something

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like telepathy into account

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then you really have to go beyond the

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brain

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indeed so you have written

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this very marvelous book uh

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j-o-t-t just one of those things

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and someone who i spoke to it about it

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with said to me why isn't it jute then

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because they wanted you to use both o's

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but i tried to explain to them that of

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was not

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used in this case but that putting that

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aside

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tell us a little bit about how you came

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well i suppose i started with my

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personal experience though it's by no

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means

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the easiest one to explain without

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but i did have a very simple chart

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well rather typically the an object

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really of no interest whatever a little

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red covered um account book

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lived in the left-hand draw at my in my

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office

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and my temporary secretary

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used to come to me at the end of the

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week telling me how many hours she'd

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worked

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and i would then put my hand into the

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drawer and take out the red notebook and

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she would write in it

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how many hours she worked what she was

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going to pay

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to be paid and i would have to go and

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pay herself from the till

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and on one occasion i put my hand in

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the drawer and couldn't feel the book

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so i pulled the drawer out and i

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couldn't see the book and there wasn't

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much in the drawer

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and i put my hand in and trolled

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all over the surface and there was no

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book

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so then i took my eyes away from the

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draw and looked up at her

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and she looked at me and said well i

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said where is it then

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she said i don't know and then we both

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looked back in the drawer for some

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reason and there it was sitting right on

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top staring us in the face

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and i thought well

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how could this happen and that really

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started me

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on the possibility that things

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actually go out of existence and

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when you're not looking they come back

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indeed

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and i suppose that really started me

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later she said she wasn't sure that she

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had looked in the drawer

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and that was rather undermining because

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after all i had

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a witnessed incident yes

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and this very often happens that people

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who are

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perfectly certain of something at the

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time it happens

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when they reflect on it later think no

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it couldn't have happened

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i didn't see it yes indeed and

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and this is reminding me oh that that

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particular aspect

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is reminding me a little bit of a

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scientist

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who i am probably sure i'm almost sure

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that you're familiar with

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and that is somebody who passed about 10

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years ago

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named lyle watson who was uh i guess

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that is a welsh

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welsh name but he came from south africa

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and lynn later lived in australia as far

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as i

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recall and he spoke

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about things happening

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when you are innocent enough to believe

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they can happen

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and then once you have adopted

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uh a kind of uh um

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the uh what's the word i'm looking for

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the reality the group

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reality the uh

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reality around you then then it's no

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longer possible so these things no

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longer happen

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so people don't see fairies and they

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don't uh they don't levitate and

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a number of things because they don't

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believe it's possible

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oh that's right it's not the current

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paradigm

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that's your word yes yes

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the consensus reality is yes that's

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actually though the current paradigm

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works just as well

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gets the point across um so

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uh yeah so that that seems to be a part

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of the issue when you you don't have to

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believe

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something you simply need to suspend

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disbelief

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that it uh can't happen

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yes i think well i think this is why you

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get such

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sensational things happening

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in physical sciences you have a lot

290
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:49,680
a group of people who mainly

291
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:52,079
believe that it can happen and it

292
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:53,760
happens

293
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,279
and then sometimes within the group you

294
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,040
get someone come in

295
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:02,160
who says no it can't happen and they

296
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:04,880
could actually stop it happening

297
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:07,920
yes yes and it seems important

298
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:11,199
in terms of seance groups that the

299
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,240
people

300
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:14,240
meet and know each other and that they

301
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,639
meet not necessarily regularly every

302
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:18,560
tuesday or anything like that

303
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:21,680
but sort of like that they have a a kind

304
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,360
of ongoing meeting

305
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,680
pattern and that they get to know one

306
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:27,600
another and then suddenly

307
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:30,320
tables start to levitate and so forth we

308
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:31,760
we had a guest on

309
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:35,199
uh who was a social is a sociologist

310
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:38,240
named james mclennan uh who

311
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:40,639
lives a little bit to the south of where

312
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:41,760
we are but

313
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:45,680
uh witnessed a great deal of

314
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:49,440
that sort of seance activity in

315
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:53,279
uh in conjunction with um

316
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:56,639
a doctor i believe william cox out in

317
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:57,519
the midwest

318
00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:00,320
and they just had this group going that

319
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:01,040
was just

320
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,519
incredible with all kinds of stuff

321
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:04,959
happening and of course

322
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:08,079
no one in the parapsychology world fully

323
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:09,600
believed them so

324
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:12,000
um they were trying to prove it one way

325
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:12,880
or the other and

326
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:16,079
they could find no problem with the uh

327
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,360
the events

328
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,920
uh but once somebody else came in from

329
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:21,040
the outside world

330
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:23,600
well nothing would happen or it would

331
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,639
somehow

332
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,720
look like there might be some fraud but

333
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:28,800
fraud couldn't be proven nor could it be

334
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:30,399
proven the other way so

335
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:33,440
you're left in this no no man's land

336
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:37,120
yes i remember that yes yes that was one

337
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:39,360
of the things that

338
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:42,560
certainly there was a lot of controversy

339
00:15:47,189 --> 00:15:43,759
about

340
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:47,199
and and still and still remains so

341
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:50,800
so you have um one of your chapters is a

342
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:51,759
framework for

343
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:55,360
jot and um perhaps you could give us

344
00:16:02,949 --> 00:15:59,519
some of your feelings or your theories

345
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:02,959
uh about why this happens and also

346
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:06,000
a quick summary of the various kinds

347
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:07,600
because i i found that

348
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:10,320
kind of interesting to fly away and and

349
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:10,639
and

350
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,160
i'm looking for a windfall we have we

351
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:18,000
have a billion dollars coming down

352
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:18,800
tonight

353
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:21,680
on the lottery here so we're all looking

354
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:23,120
for a windfall but that's a different

355
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:24,160
kind of windfall

356
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:27,279
go ahead mary well um

357
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:30,720
i suppose the basic

358
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:34,000
um jottle as i call them

359
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:37,279
the basic jottle is a walkabout and that

360
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,480
is when something well for example

361
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,959
you know you put down your pen on the

362
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:44,720
right hand side

363
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,360
if you're a right-handed person and it

364
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:48,880
disappears

365
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:51,600
and for some reason you find it on the

366
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,519
left hand side

367
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,839
and you think to yourself i must have

368
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:57,839
put it there but in fact

369
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:01,279
you didn't it's

370
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:04,480
it in a sense ceased to exist

371
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:07,199
on the right hand side perhaps of trying

372
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:07,919
to tell you

373
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:11,280
you were working too hard

374
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,919
and when you found it on the left hand

375
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:15,120
side

376
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,160
you decided to take a break well

377
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:21,360
there is also the comeback and the

378
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:22,079
comeback

379
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:25,439
is you might say a variety of walkabouts

380
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:28,640
except that the article comes back to

381
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:32,320
the same place you know you look at it

382
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:35,120
and it's not there and then generally

383
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,039
people go away and look somewhere else

384
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:39,200
you know must have put it somewhere else

385
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,559
and then you come back and there it is

386
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:44,640
well staring you in the face like my

387
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:47,200
little red book

388
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:50,960
um now the next one

389
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:54,000
well you can take them in various orders

390
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:57,600
there is a turn up when you find

391
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:00,880
something it's like a walkabout at that

392
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:03,440
end you find something that wasn't there

393
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:05,440
before

394
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,600
and you don't know exactly where it came

395
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:09,280
from

396
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:13,200
all you know is that it was not there

397
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:16,000
when you when you last inspected that

398
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:17,039
place

399
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,480
usually quite recently and then suddenly

400
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:22,240
it was there

401
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:26,080
and that's a turn up um then there is

402
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:30,640
the fly away and um

403
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,320
i think your painter raymond bayless he

404
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:36,320
had a very nice flyway

405
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:38,960
in which a paintbrush dropped on the

406
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:40,480
floor

407
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:42,880
and though he and his students searched

408
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:43,840
for it

409
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:46,880
on an absolutely bare floor

410
00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:49,679
uh it was never seen again and it was

411
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:50,360
quite a

412
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:53,600
substantial article i think about

413
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,320
14 inches long and one inch wide

414
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,799
and i'm afraid people are reporting

415
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:02,400
flyways

416
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:06,240
all over the country and

417
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:09,360
i must say it has to be a very good

418
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:11,919
reason for accepting a fire away

419
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:15,200
as not something that you just mislayed

420
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:16,880
or lost or

421
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:20,240
couldn't find and then there

422
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:24,320
is the um the windfall

423
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:27,120
which uh verus had talked about and

424
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:28,480
windfall

425
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:32,559
is when some article you have never seen

426
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:35,760
simply arrives and you find it but you

427
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,080
have

428
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:39,280
absolutely no idea where it came from

429
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:42,480
and uh and again

430
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:45,360
you know that it wasn't there before

431
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:46,240
when you last

432
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,080
saw that place and

433
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:52,320
on the whole these things tend to be a

434
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:54,160
bit worthless

435
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:57,840
so one of my people did actually

436
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:00,880
find a victorian ring

437
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:04,640
which she wore and i the most

438
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:08,480
remarkable one is trading

439
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:11,840
when you lose an article

440
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,760
and then round about the same place that

441
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:17,360
you lost it

442
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:21,600
you find a similar article

443
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:25,280
it's not the same but it is similar

444
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:29,840
it's as if you could be given a kind of

445
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:34,159
substitute or someone was trying to pass

446
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:34,960
off

447
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:38,159
the thing as the one you lost

448
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,559
and sometimes you win and sometimes you

449
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:42,559
lose

450
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:45,760
and i suppose my most remarkable case is

451
00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:46,960
out of the very

452
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:50,080
distinctive brooch

453
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:54,720
that was made up of two horseshoes

454
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:03,669
and very much prized by the

455
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:06,480
elderly lady who lost it who happens to

456
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:09,200
be a medium actually

457
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,559
and so she um she said she hoped it

458
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:14,720
would come back

459
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:18,480
at about 10 weeks later she found

460
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,919
the brooch pinned to a dress that had

461
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:22,880
been

462
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,320
rather flung on a couch because

463
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:28,159
she didn't want it in the wardrobe she

464
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:29,520
didn't like it

465
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:32,640
but hadn't actually taken such

466
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:35,840
decisive action as to throw it away but

467
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:38,159
there was this brooch on this

468
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:42,080
disc favored dress and she was thrilled

469
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:45,679
but her husband lucy orlando

470
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:49,039
was uh had been an engineer

471
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:52,720
and he was a great tinkerer

472
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:55,520
and he'd like to know how everything

473
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:56,799
works and

474
00:22:01,750 --> 00:21:59,919
the precise details of it and he

475
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,760
happened to know that the original

476
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:03,360
brooch

477
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:06,080
had a hunting horn in which you could

478
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:08,000
see through it from

479
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:10,559
well from one side to the other and it

480
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:11,039
would be

481
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:14,559
rotated in its setting

482
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:17,840
but the broach that came back

483
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,480
the hunting horn was fixed and you

484
00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:22,159
couldn't see through it

485
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,559
extraordinary yes are there various

486
00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:26,400
other details

487
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:29,679
now his wife he never told her because

488
00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:31,679
she was so happy at getting her approach

489
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:32,640
back

490
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:35,440
but he knew that it wasn't the same

491
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:37,120
article

492
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:40,880
and and yet it was

493
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,919
a very distinctive pattern you know you

494
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,360
don't just

495
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:48,000
find two horse shoes and a hunting horn

496
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:49,360
through them

497
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,440
that can be rotated every day of the

498
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:54,000
week no

499
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:55,919
no i've never seen a brooch like either

500
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:57,520
of them so um

501
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:01,120
that it certainly is an unusual object

502
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,159
um i'm sorry to have interrupted you

503
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:07,039
you please go back to the end of it oh

504
00:23:11,870 --> 00:23:08,480
okay

505
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:11,880
um in um in

506
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:14,720
parapsychological uh

507
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:18,240
community in in the united states

508
00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:21,520
the windfall is often referred to as an

509
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:22,480
apport

510
00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:25,039
yes that's right oh in england too that

511
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:26,720
gives a traditional name

512
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:30,880
for it certainly and um

513
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:34,080
the uh i think there are various other

514
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:35,280
names well

515
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:36,799
they would be called disappearing

516
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:40,080
objects and

517
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:44,080
and what i suppose a fly away would

518
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:47,360
simply be called a dematerialization

519
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:50,640
which in my understanding

520
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:53,919
is exactly what it is

521
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:55,919
the gentleman with the um with the

522
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:57,679
disappearing stamp

523
00:24:01,549 --> 00:24:01,120
where he could feel it um yes he felt it

524
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:01,559
just

525
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:04,880
materializing that was that was quite

526
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,919
it was a very simple one of the

527
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:09,919
of your stories it was perhaps one of

528
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:11,840
the most simple but it was

529
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:15,520
also somewhat the most unsettling

530
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:19,200
in some way yes yes he was

531
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,799
carrying this um stamp of which he had

532
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:24,559
only one

533
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:28,240
of a particular value and as he crossed

534
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:29,279
the room

535
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:31,600
looking at it and holding it firmly

536
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:32,320
between

537
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:35,600
thumb and index finger he just

538
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:39,360
felt it dematerialized

539
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,039
didn't drop to the floor but it just

540
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:46,320
went i don't know what reason there was

541
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:47,679
for that

542
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:52,640
perhaps there was somebody some uh

543
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,360
reason known to his subconscious mind

544
00:24:58,870 --> 00:24:57,600
that it wouldn't be a good idea to mail

545
00:25:03,029 --> 00:24:58,880
that letter

546
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:06,549
i would say that would uh put a crimp

547
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:10,240
in almost anyone's sense of

548
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:13,440
reality and it does

549
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:15,840
i would almost wish it would happen to

550
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:16,960
more

551
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:19,279
not skeptics but debunkers i am not

552
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:20,799
against skeptics i think

553
00:25:26,789 --> 00:25:24,080
skeptics are are good folks who look at

554
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:26,799
things and try to make a different kind

555
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:29,120
of sense of them but it's debunkers

556
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:32,240
that i i really totally wish things like

557
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:33,760
this would happen to to sort of give

558
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:35,279
them a kick in the pants if you know

559
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,320
what i mean

560
00:25:39,909 --> 00:25:39,039
i think it does occasionally but on the

561
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:39,919
other hand

562
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:43,039
it's very soon forgotten true

563
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:45,679
true or they will deny they will deny

564
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:47,360
that it ever happened uh

565
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,559
i i know of a famous skeptic whose name

566
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:52,159
is of course escaping me

567
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,200
uh who uh got married and had

568
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:58,320
a an extraordinary experience he was an

569
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:59,520
older man to have

570
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:01,760
gotten married at the time like i would

571
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:03,440
say at least in his 50s

572
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:06,640
and he uh was marrying

573
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:10,240
and his wife had a

574
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:12,720
grandfather who was deceased i believe

575
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:15,360
and there was all kinds of strange stuff

576
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,000
going on around the grandfather's radio

577
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:19,919
which played without it being

578
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:23,120
plugged in and so forth but still this

579
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:26,240
notorious debunker couldn't bring

580
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:27,360
himself

581
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:29,760
to figure out that something paranormal

582
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:31,840
was going on

583
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,799
oh yes i think so there can be enormous

584
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:36,240
resistance

585
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:39,760
well the professor arthur ellison once

586
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:43,120
laid on a demonstration in which he

587
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:44,400
rather

588
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:47,919
cunningly arranged for a magnet

589
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:52,400
to lift something up um

590
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:55,279
and people thought that he was

591
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:58,640
demonstrating something paranormal

592
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:01,760
but there were one or two people there

593
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:04,840
who just said nothing happened it didn't

594
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:07,440
nothing rose up

595
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:12,320
and because they couldn't bear to think

596
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:14,400
that it acted they'd witnessed the

597
00:27:20,029 --> 00:27:17,440
paranormal event

598
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:20,039
i called this from scientific

599
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:21,679
fundamentalism

600
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,039
indeed look on this as a kind of belief

601
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:26,880
system

602
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:30,480
well certainly what we call scientism

603
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:31,600
here

604
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:34,960
is a is like a religion of science and i

605
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:38,720
would refer to uh penn gillette

606
00:27:42,789 --> 00:27:41,919
of uh penn and teller who are a uh

607
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:42,799
well-known

608
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:47,279
uh american um magician duo

609
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:50,480
and uh teller never speaks but penn

610
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:51,520
gillette

611
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:54,799
uh who is the larger member of the

612
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:57,840
of the duo uh he

613
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:01,200
goes about uh creating effects

614
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:04,240
that have been created by psychics and

615
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:04,960
mediums

616
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,760
and practitioners of the paranormal and

617
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:09,760
he then says well you see

618
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:11,919
i've done this and i'm i'm not doing

619
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:13,120
anything paranormal

620
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,919
i'll tell you how i did it and uh

621
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:17,919
psychic people and people who are

622
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,480
in psychical research they turn around

623
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:22,480
and say to him well just because

624
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:26,399
you can levitate someone by trickery

625
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:28,240
doesn't mean that anytime anyone

626
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:30,000
levitates it was done by trickery

627
00:28:33,430 --> 00:28:32,559
i only use the levitation as an example

628
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:33,440
yes

629
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:36,880
well it's very often said by

630
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:41,279
opponents of paranormal reality

631
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:46,320
that no psychic has ever performed

632
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:50,799
in front of a skilled magician

633
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:55,039
and um the magician hasn't known how he

634
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:58,720
did it well actually this is

635
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:01,840
absolutely false because

636
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:05,200
the there was a um

637
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:10,240
a french psychic called alexis didier

638
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:14,480
and he actually uh demonstrated

639
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:18,240
in front of the uh very

640
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:21,919
famous magician whose name was

641
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:24,960
udan which is actually

642
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:28,320
the name adopted by houdini because he

643
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:29,760
was such an admirer

644
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:38,070
anyway dda completely astonished

645
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:42,640
the magician he was able um

646
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:45,679
to tell him what was written on

647
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:48,960
by another book that the magician took

648
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:51,039
out of his pocket

649
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:54,640
and he was able to play card games

650
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:57,919
in which the magician had blindfolded

651
00:30:02,389 --> 00:29:59,200
him

652
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:02,399
and even as the magician held his cards

653
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:05,200
under the table gga could tell him what

654
00:30:09,029 --> 00:30:06,840
his cards

655
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:09,039
were and

656
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,320
he well i mean those were the simple

657
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,480
things but he also did incredibly

658
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:16,320
complicated things

659
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:21,039
like relating um the origin of

660
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,919
articles that people showed him and

661
00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:25,440
anyway

662
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:28,880
the magician actually made a public

663
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:29,600
statement

664
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:32,799
because he had actually been paid to

665
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:36,399
um to examine gga

666
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:40,720
and in fact this statement was blaze and

667
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:43,360
all over the european press

668
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:46,640
probably the world press because he said

669
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:47,200
that

670
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:50,320
he had no doubt about the authenticity

671
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:53,039
of dj's

672
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:56,960
paranormal abilities and that he could

673
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:57,360
teach

674
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:00,799
dda how to do his tricks but

675
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:04,720
gga could never tell him

676
00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:08,080
or train him to do

677
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:11,440
what gta did and this

678
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:14,799
is historical effect but it's

679
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:19,600
denied daily by the jabunkas

680
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:22,799
well i know that i happen to know

681
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:25,760
a good amount of magicians here in the

682
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:26,720
new york city

683
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:29,840
area and i would say that

684
00:31:36,389 --> 00:31:33,279
two-thirds of those magicians

685
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:36,399
thoroughly poo poo the idea of of

686
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:37,760
psychic phenomena

687
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:41,120
but one-third of them freely

688
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:45,279
admits that they have been in situations

689
00:31:50,149 --> 00:31:47,440
where they knew stuff about their

690
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:50,159
audience members that they had no

691
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:54,159
uh ordinary way of knowing

692
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:57,360
and furthermore um we have had a couple

693
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:00,880
of times on this podcast

694
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:04,159
physicist russell targ who i'm happy to

695
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:04,559
call

696
00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:08,080
a friend and when he was a young man

697
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:11,120
in manhattan the teenager he

698
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:14,159
practiced a sleight of hand

699
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,960
and he began to realize while practicing

700
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:18,080
sleight of hand

701
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,799
that indeed he knew things that he

702
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:22,080
shouldn't have known

703
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:25,519
just from doing the trick and he went on

704
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,000
to

705
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:29,360
a wonderful career in physics but which

706
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:32,880
included uh being one of the

707
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:36,080
i'm going to call him the godfathers of

708
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:40,080
remote viewing and uh has experienced

709
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,200
and facilitated many many

710
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:45,919
thousands of instances of psychic

711
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:46,640
phenomena

712
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,640
and was paid by the government the

713
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:50,559
american government to do so

714
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:54,000
in the remote viewing uh

715
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:56,799
well yes i can well understand that

716
00:33:02,470 --> 00:32:58,880
because in europe too

717
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:02,480
uh the the main investigators

718
00:33:10,350 --> 00:33:07,279
of um well the most i suppose

719
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,360
dramatic form of paranormal which is

720
00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:12,480
materialization

721
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:17,679
the basic of just as far as i'm

722
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:23,350
they've all been scientists and but

723
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:24,799
they've been

724
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,519
such eminent scientists you know fellows

725
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:29,360
of the royal society

726
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:33,200
or nobel prize winners

727
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:37,760
or at least professors who

728
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:40,960
tenured people who can do as they'd like

729
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:44,960
and those people at the top

730
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:47,919
they're not afraid of saying that

731
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:49,760
they're perfectly certain that these

732
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:51,039
things happen

733
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,919
i'm afraid it's people rather lower down

734
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,360
the hierarchy

735
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:58,000
who fear for their careers if they

736
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:00,000
actually

737
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:03,919
admit to paranormal beliefs

738
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:07,519
or opinions well those who are risking

739
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:11,440
their um livelihood i think many of them

740
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:14,800
are technicians as opposed to

741
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,119
research scientists who may be a little

742
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:19,119
bit more open true research

743
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:22,480
scientists but um let's get back to jot

744
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:25,839
and uh and let's uh

745
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:29,520
repeat that we have here on the air with

746
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:30,320
us

747
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:33,760
mary rose barrington from great britain

748
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:36,960
who has written a marvelous book

749
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:40,879
called j-o-t-t

750
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:44,720
just one of those things so mary rose

751
00:34:49,030 --> 00:34:48,639
would you like to tell us where your

752
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:49,040
book

753
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,560
may be available um

754
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:55,119
yes i think you have to go through

755
00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:57,280
amazon

756
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:01,040
but beware there is another book

757
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:04,240
called shot recently published

758
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,720
oh no it's what i call one of those

759
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:08,560
things just one of those things

760
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,160
indeed it is i mean i read a

761
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:14,960
bit of it because amazon does um you

762
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:17,599
know give you the opportunity to do that

763
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:21,839
i never discovered why it's called drop

764
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:24,800
but there it is you have to be rather

765
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:25,839
careful

766
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:28,880
there there is a kind of subtitle to my

767
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:30,320
book on jot

768
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:34,079
which is um when things when things

769
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:38,480
disappear and come back or relocate

770
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:41,760
and why it really happens

771
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:45,359
and so there we are you get it through

772
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:46,400
amazon

773
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:49,599
but if you just put in jot

774
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:52,160
you might get the other one i see well

775
00:35:56,550 --> 00:35:54,160
we have to emphasize your name

776
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,560
as well because i'm quite sure that the

777
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:58,000
other one wasn't written by

778
00:36:01,750 --> 00:36:00,400
mary rose barrington no it wasn't he

779
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:01,760
wasn't well we're lucky

780
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:04,800
in in terms of that um

781
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:08,640
in any case so expound a little bit if

782
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:09,520
you will

783
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:13,520
on your theories about the reasons for

784
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:14,560
john

785
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:17,599
oh yes well

786
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:21,280
it's um difficult to put in a nutshell

787
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:23,839
but i suppose it comes down to saying

788
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:25,280
that the

789
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:27,839
the fundamental reality really is

790
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:29,599
consciousness

791
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:34,400
and that um minds and matter

792
00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:37,520
are in a sense

793
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:40,160
the um the front and the back of the

794
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,920
same coin

795
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,560
or the inside and the outside of the

796
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:46,720
same piece of fabric

797
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:50,480
and interchangeable in a way but

798
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:53,599
it's like uh mind being

799
00:37:02,550 --> 00:36:58,880
awake and matter being asleep

800
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:02,560
and the fluid mind

801
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,000
actually controls the matter tells it

802
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:08,880
how to organize itself

803
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:12,240
so what i'm saying really is

804
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:15,440
that the material world

805
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:20,000
is held in place by the operation of

806
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:24,240
the subconscious minds of humans

807
00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:27,119
maybe animals play a part but the human

808
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:28,480
mind is

809
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:31,040
much stronger so i suspect it is the

810
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:32,400
human mind

811
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:36,320
and that really keeps mattering in place

812
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:39,680
and it has to obey the laws

813
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:43,440
of this particular reality

814
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:46,720
which is a causal reality

815
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:49,680
it's causal in the sense that it's

816
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,200
sequential

817
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:53,440
anything that happens has to be

818
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:56,560
consistent with what happened before

819
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:59,520
and what's going to happen after so it's

820
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:00,400
sequential

821
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:03,520
in that sense where the cause of law not

822
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:06,400
but in common speech i call that the

823
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:07,200
causal

824
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:10,640
reality held in place

825
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:13,839
by the subconscious action

826
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:17,119
of human minds and

827
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:20,560
if for some reason it is to your

828
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:21,760
advantage

829
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:25,200
or it gives you a lesson of some sort

830
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,480
for something that was there not to be

831
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:30,160
there anymore

832
00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:35,040
it may actually be disassembled

833
00:38:42,349 --> 00:38:38,640
by your own subconscious

834
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:42,359
and then it reverts to what i call

835
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:44,240
potentiality

836
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:47,440
which is rather like something i think

837
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:49,760
probably more familiar to people

838
00:38:55,109 --> 00:38:52,960
who read popular science as i do

839
00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:55,119
it's rather like something going out of

840
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:57,520
particle existence

841
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:00,480
it's a vibration of existence in fact

842
00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:02,480
the parallel

843
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:06,160
is almost exact because whereas

844
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:08,720
in the particle existence you see and

845
00:39:14,790 --> 00:39:12,480
feel and touch and the thing is there

846
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,800
when it's in vibrational form then as

847
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:16,000
far as

848
00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:18,720
your perceptions are concerned it's not

849
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:20,960
there anymore

850
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:23,119
and this can happen because you are

851
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:24,720
fatigued

852
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:28,640
or you're in a revery

853
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:31,760
ground study you're tired

854
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:34,079
you're you're not really paying

855
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:35,359
attention

856
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:38,720
and then i do suspect that quite a lot

857
00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:39,440
of things

858
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:43,720
actually um well i call them

859
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:46,240
deactualizing

860
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:49,200
and um you won't know about it actually

861
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:50,720
unless you happen to want

862
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:53,599
that particular article and then you

863
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:55,760
find it's not there

864
00:40:03,349 --> 00:39:59,359
but i'm sure you have a

865
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:03,359
direction from a kind of um

866
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:06,319
well what should i say i call it the

867
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:08,560
environmental control

868
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:11,839
that's um that actually

869
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:14,880
makes you bring it back because

870
00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:18,880
um there must be some kind of um

871
00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:22,000
balance of things that disappear and

872
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:24,000
things that come back

873
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:27,040
because of the balance between mind and

874
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:28,480
matter

875
00:40:32,069 --> 00:40:31,520
and so it may come back in the right

876
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:32,079
place

877
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:39,760
appear to the wrong person in which case

878
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:41,119
they will

879
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:44,880
get a windfall or even a trade-in

880
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:49,040
or who knows what a fireway does

881
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:53,720
does a flyway really remain permanently

882
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:57,520
deactualized or is it always somewhere

883
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:58,560
else

884
00:41:02,069 --> 00:41:00,960
well i think there's no way of knowing

885
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:02,079
that

886
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:06,560
model

887
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:09,680
behind john okay well

888
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,000
um i have a couple of questions around

889
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,480
those ideas which all seem quite

890
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,079
plausible to me

891
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:21,200
but i do have a few questions and the

892
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:22,000
first one

893
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:25,599
is uh other players

894
00:41:32,309 --> 00:41:29,119
by other players uh let's take the case

895
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:32,319
of the woman uh who

896
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,480
had the plants removed from her

897
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:36,240
windowsill and ended up

898
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,280
on the roof of her conservatory i'm not

899
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:41,200
sure i've got that exactly right

900
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:44,960
and yes she had both an ex-husband who

901
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:46,079
had passed

902
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:49,440
and a companionate relationship within

903
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:52,240
a man who also had passed uh sort of in

904
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:53,280
sequence

905
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:55,520
and the man who uh who she had the

906
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:57,920
companionate relationship with

907
00:42:02,470 --> 00:42:00,640
was uh helped her with gardening and her

908
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:02,480
husband was a uh

909
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:05,760
somehow in law enforcement uh and do you

910
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:06,240
think

911
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:09,839
that people who have

912
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:13,119
uh these um uh

913
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:16,079
things going on that sometimes some

914
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:17,920
discarnate entity

915
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:21,040
uh such as a deceased person or

916
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:24,079
uh something somebody or some

917
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:27,200
being that never was human might have

918
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:35,109
well i certainly don't rule out the

919
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:36,560
possibility

920
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:39,200
it's i think that's one of the few drops

921
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:40,319
in which

922
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:44,079
um someone who who was no longer

923
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:48,240
living might um you know plausibly be

924
00:42:52,390 --> 00:42:49,200
thought

925
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:52,400
to have some kind of effect but

926
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:55,520
um i think the effect would be

927
00:43:02,630 --> 00:42:58,880
on the mind of the living person

928
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:02,640
and the um the de-actualization

929
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:06,560
or the uh the walkabout in this case

930
00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:11,280
i would think would be affected by her

931
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:14,560
okay all right um the second

932
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:17,359
sort of question i have uh in the same

933
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:18,880
general vein

934
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:22,240
is that there um

935
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:25,520
there is this uh concept in

936
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:28,480
i'm not in psychic not in psychic

937
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,440
research

938
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:32,079
uh but it does flow over into psychic

939
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:33,040
research

940
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:36,400
it comes from the spiritual

941
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:39,440
side of things which often says we are

942
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:40,640
all one

943
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:48,240
with an

944
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:51,760
ant crawling across the rug as well as

945
00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:55,599
um a stone in the backyard let us say

946
00:44:02,230 --> 00:43:59,040
just for argument's sake um and

947
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:02,240
uh also in this regard uh it is

948
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:03,359
considered that

949
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:05,760
everything has consciousness from the

950
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:08,079
glass of water i'm looking at here

951
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:11,119
on the table at which i am sitting

952
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:14,319
um all the way to um

953
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:17,920
uh the greatest genius and

954
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:20,960
a giraffe uh running through africa that

955
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:22,880
we all have consciousness

956
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:26,240
on some level even objects uh

957
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,200
even um like the earth may have a

958
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:30,960
separate consciousness and it's called

959
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:31,839
gaia

960
00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:34,960
and the moon has a consciousness and

961
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:37,359
jupiter has a consciousness purportedly

962
00:44:41,349 --> 00:44:38,000
i'm not

963
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:41,359
absolutes but this

964
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:44,880
is this is uh what is thought

965
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:48,000
consistently so um

966
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:51,520
if something happens to this glass of

967
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:53,440
water if it were to move across the

968
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:54,400
table

969
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,000
uh could i wonder whether i did it

970
00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:01,200
whether our wonderful engineer bill did

971
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:01,839
it

972
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:07,200
the glass rather would probably have to

973
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,040
be the or the glass and the water can

974
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:12,160
together or are we all one and

975
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:15,599
it's hard to tell who did what

976
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:19,280
well i think i i would personally rule

977
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:21,280
out the idea that the

978
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:24,960
the glass of water did it but um

979
00:45:31,349 --> 00:45:28,480
because i think uh um

980
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,359
even though you might think something

981
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:33,040
has

982
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:36,400
not exactly a mind but a

983
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:40,079
as a control center shall we say

984
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:43,280
i think it's always um

985
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:46,560
the human mind is the most powerful mind

986
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:49,359
around one would have to say

987
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:53,520
and if it's if there is as i suspect

988
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,040
a universal telepathic linkage

989
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,520
between the subconscious minds then of

990
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:00,480
course it's

991
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:05,599
a mind of extraordinary power and

992
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,760
the question does arise if the glass of

993
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:09,280
water

994
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:13,200
moves across the surface

995
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:16,400
um it's really

996
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:20,400
a kind of concept the glass of water

997
00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:24,800
i mean as far as scientific reality is

998
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:26,800
concerned you might say

999
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:30,000
it's conglomerate of

1000
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:38,550
so i mean as an objective object it

1001
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,880
doesn't really exist

1002
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:43,200
it's the concept of the glass of water

1003
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:45,760
that makes it a unit

1004
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:48,560
and if things if that glass of water

1005
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:51,520
were to dematerialize

1006
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:54,560
again as a scientific object

1007
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:58,400
it doesn't make sense because

1008
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:01,440
a glass of water is not really

1009
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:04,720
anything but as i say conglomerate of

1010
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:07,839
atoms so i've i feel

1011
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:11,440
sure that the the mind that conceives of

1012
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:13,280
a glass of water is the one that

1013
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:15,920
controls the action

1014
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:19,200
but whether it is sending its

1015
00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:22,880
communication to it as a concept glass

1016
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:24,319
of water

1017
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:28,000
or whether it's sending it multitudes of

1018
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:32,559
um orders or directions

1019
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:36,000
or compulsions is it sending it

1020
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:41,119
to the control center of each particle

1021
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:44,319
well i don't really know but i do think

1022
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:46,559
it is actually

1023
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:50,000
the uh the concept that you're

1024
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:53,440
communicating with and actually

1025
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:02,069
okay well i certainly can't i i guess i

1026
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:05,280
put this question out not

1027
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:09,040
in any way to challenge

1028
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:12,160
the situation only because i myself am

1029
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:17,280
trying to understand uh as best i can

1030
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:19,520
from i don't know that i gave you a very

1031
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:20,720
coherent answer

1032
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:24,000
no it was it was quite it was quite good

1033
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:26,319
and it does bring to mind two things

1034
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:27,040
that are

1035
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:29,680
both um i would say scientifically above

1036
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:31,040
my pay grade

1037
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:36,559
and my and that is the idea of um

1038
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:40,559
of inter uh you know the particle

1039
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,440
uh one particle meets another particle

1040
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:45,520
and then they're interwoven forever

1041
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:48,559
and they always have a yes

1042
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:51,280
there's that theory of physics uh and

1043
00:48:55,270 --> 00:48:52,160
then there is

1044
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:55,280
also the concept

1045
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,160
that the world for whatever reality

1046
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:02,880
the physical world may or may not have

1047
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:03,440
which

1048
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:04,800
you know we could talk about that

1049
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:08,400
forever um

1050
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:11,680
what we get through the

1051
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:14,880
windows of the senses are a very

1052
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:18,400
small amount of what is

1053
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:21,599
out there um and it's a small amount of

1054
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:23,839
the electromagnetic spectrum that comes

1055
00:49:30,069 --> 00:49:26,319
into our eyes and ears for instance

1056
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:30,079
oh yes and and what we get is

1057
00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:32,079
something that has been biologically

1058
00:49:37,109 --> 00:49:34,079
developed in our organism

1059
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:37,119
so that uh we might live a little bit

1060
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:38,800
longer that we might

1061
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:42,000
avoid the predator lion

1062
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:45,680
or the predator man with the gun

1063
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:50,319
and so we are evolutionarily designed to

1064
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:51,440
see certain things

1065
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:55,040
whereas my house cats indeed

1066
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:59,040
are um uh are are doing something else

1067
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:00,640
seeing something else they may see

1068
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:01,920
something similar because they're

1069
00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:02,559
mammals

1070
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:04,319
but in fact they don't see the exact

1071
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:05,599
same thing and

1072
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:08,880
some animals like um

1073
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:11,520
i remember trying to connect with

1074
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:12,319
somebody's

1075
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:16,240
pet lizard uh oddly i was waiting to go

1076
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,079
on a tv show

1077
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:20,079
and it was all about animal

1078
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:21,359
communication

1079
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:24,240
and a gentleman who had been in prison

1080
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:24,960
and and

1081
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:28,319
while in prison was um

1082
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,599
raising some animals for his own

1083
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:33,359
betterment and for the betterment of the

1084
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:35,119
animals you know what i mean he was

1085
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:35,760
trying to

1086
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:37,920
rehabilitate himself and he he was a

1087
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:39,359
nice guy

1088
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:41,359
and he had this lizard with him and i

1089
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:43,440
was sitting in what is called the green

1090
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:43,839
room

1091
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:47,599
waiting to go on this tv program and um

1092
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:50,640
i asked him about this lizard and i

1093
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:52,960
asked him if i could touch the lizard

1094
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:55,760
and he said sure you know just he gave

1095
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,119
me certain instructions

1096
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:59,599
and the lizard was a medium-sized lizard

1097
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:00,559
probably

1098
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:03,040
its body was less than a foot long but

1099
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:04,079
with the tail

1100
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:06,000
which was quite long maybe almost two

1101
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:08,960
feet long and so i gently touched the

1102
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:11,280
the lizard the back of the lizard's head

1103
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:12,720
and went down the

1104
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:15,040
the spinal column just sort of like to

1105
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:16,079
pet the lizard

1106
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:18,800
in a way and and the lizard was very

1107
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:20,240
passive and didn't do anything

1108
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:21,680
aggressive towards me

1109
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:24,400
but i suddenly was sort of transported

1110
00:51:28,470 --> 00:51:25,440
and saw

1111
00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:28,480
things as though they were crystalline

1112
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:31,839
like for an instant like a

1113
00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:36,079
a very small in instance uh in time uh

1114
00:51:40,790 --> 00:51:38,400
saw a crystalline world and now i can't

1115
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:40,800
prove that that's what the lizards saw

1116
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:43,839
but it did it did affect me it did

1117
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,480
affect me

1118
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:46,800
and made me wonder about my own

1119
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:48,720
perceptions and the perceptions

1120
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:52,319
of common animals around us

1121
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:56,319
has possibly been yes well they're

1122
00:52:01,750 --> 00:51:59,280
of course we we can't ask them but i

1123
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:01,760
don't know i have the impression

1124
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:04,960
that when my cat looks into my eyes

1125
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:07,760
that you know she sees the same sort of

1126
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:10,559
things when i look into her eyes

1127
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:14,559
so um you know i think we've got a plot

1128
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:15,440
in common

1129
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:18,880
oh yes and i don't know i don't look on

1130
00:52:23,829 --> 00:52:19,920
the psychic

1131
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:23,839
faculty as something that's evolving

1132
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:26,400
because if anything i would think it's

1133
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:28,400
rather retreating

1134
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:31,599
because um you know there seemed to be a

1135
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:34,160
great deal more going on in the past

1136
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:37,760
than there is now i have an idea that

1137
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:41,280
um well it's all your

1138
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:45,359
your basic belief system isn't it

1139
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:48,400
and i think that science now

1140
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:51,440
is performed such

1141
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:55,680
wonders and together with technology

1142
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:57,839
seems to be miraculous

1143
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:00,240
that i think people are very imbued with

1144
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:01,760
the idea

1145
00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:05,359
that it is the only thing that really

1146
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,880
counts

1147
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:09,119
and that anything that they see is

1148
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:10,319
incompatible with

1149
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:14,800
it couldn't possibly exist

1150
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:18,000
and i have an idea that um

1151
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:21,359
the psychic faculty now actually

1152
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:24,400
is rather shrinking

1153
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:28,160
i i'm not totally sure about that but i

1154
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:30,000
think in the large

1155
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:33,599
uh in volume of people in the world

1156
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:36,800
who uh respect or

1157
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,400
uh run after technological

1158
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:42,720
achievements and the wonders that they

1159
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:43,680
may bring to

1160
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:47,760
us they would tend to downplay

1161
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:51,520
uh psychic phenomena but because there

1162
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:52,720
are so many more

1163
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:56,240
people in the world now purportedly than

1164
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:56,640
ever

1165
00:54:03,270 --> 00:53:59,920
and i i believe that's probably the case

1166
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:03,280
um that uh there is probably more

1167
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:04,160
variety

1168
00:54:10,510 --> 00:54:07,359
of persons so we may

1169
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:10,520
in fact get uh some

1170
00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:14,079
extraordinary cases of

1171
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:17,280
psychic phenomena amongst certain people

1172
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:19,280
who do accept it because there are so

1173
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:20,640
many more people

1174
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:23,520
it's just a matter of finding and

1175
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,440
perhaps

1176
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:28,559
aggregating those people together

1177
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:31,599
well of course yes it's true i mean

1178
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:33,680
quite honestly i was talking about the

1179
00:54:38,630 --> 00:54:34,960
people

1180
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:38,640
probably in england and

1181
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:41,200
and in europe generally but i wasn't

1182
00:54:44,789 --> 00:54:42,319
taking an

1183
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:44,799
account of the amazing things that you

1184
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,570
hear from brazil for example

1185
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:49,440
[Music]

1186
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:53,440
well i i want to um continue just for a

1187
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:54,240
bit more

1188
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:57,599
uh uh if you don't mind uh and i i

1189
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:01,200
really like the story of the plastic

1190
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:04,640
orange plastic bowl maybe that's amazing

1191
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:05,119
yes

1192
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:06,960
perhaps you'd like to share that one

1193
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:08,240
with us and then i'll

1194
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:12,559
i'll tell you about a uh jot that i had

1195
00:55:20,710 --> 00:55:16,720
that had to do with the isle of skye ah

1196
00:55:24,390 --> 00:55:20,720
right well the orange washing up bow

1197
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:24,400
yeah that is extraordinary well now um

1198
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:27,760
the lady i called dp she

1199
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:31,680
um incidentally is pretty well up

1200
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:35,599
in psychical research in scotland

1201
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,040
and she um washed up the dishes

1202
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,119
for he and she and her husband had had

1203
00:55:46,829 --> 00:55:43,680
dinner while he went out and walked

1204
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:46,839
the dog so she was in the house by

1205
00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:48,960
herself

1206
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:52,160
she put the dishes away in a cupboard

1207
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:55,680
and then turned back to the sink

1208
00:56:02,470 --> 00:55:59,839
to put the um

1209
00:56:03,430 --> 00:56:02,480
the bowl back in the sink she'd taken it

1210
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:03,440
out

1211
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:06,000
and removed the dishes now she wants to

1212
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:07,359
put it back

1213
00:56:14,549 --> 00:56:10,880
but the washing up bowl

1214
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:14,559
um simply wasn't where she left it which

1215
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:14,880
was

1216
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:19,040
on the drainer perhaps i should explain

1217
00:56:26,549 --> 00:56:22,480
that in england most kitchens

1218
00:56:30,309 --> 00:56:26,559
have a single sink not a double one

1219
00:56:32,870 --> 00:56:30,319
and usually to wash up

1220
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:32,880
a small amount of dishes you use a

1221
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:33,760
plastic

1222
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:37,839
bowl and that's what i mean by the bowl

1223
00:56:45,030 --> 00:56:42,160
and so the bell had disappeared

1224
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:45,040
from the training board this was quite a

1225
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:47,119
small kitchen

1226
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,680
which she searched and when her husband

1227
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:51,839
came back he searched

1228
00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:54,799
and the bowl could not be found and

1229
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:56,079
after a day or two

1230
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:59,280
she had to replace it unfortunately with

1231
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:01,200
a red bow because they didn't have

1232
00:57:06,150 --> 00:57:03,440
orange anymore

1233
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:06,160
and then a week went by and she wanted

1234
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:08,079
to get something

1235
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:10,240
that she didn't often use i know the

1236
00:57:14,069 --> 00:57:13,119
pressure cooker and the pressure cooker

1237
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:14,079
lived

1238
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:17,520
in a lower cupboard

1239
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:21,200
and the cupboard doors had a table in

1240
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:22,160
front of them

1241
00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:24,240
because she didn't really often have

1242
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:26,960
recourse to that cupboard

1243
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:32,240
so she moved the table opened the doors

1244
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:34,960
and found that the pressure cooker in

1245
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:37,680
some extraordinary way seemed to be

1246
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,920
wedged in she called her husband

1247
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:43,839
very useful to have a witness for these

1248
00:57:49,589 --> 00:57:45,440
things

1249
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:49,599
and he he pulled out the pressure cooker

1250
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:53,440
and then he investigated why it was it

1251
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:57,040
seemed to be so um well so crowded in

1252
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:58,799
that cupboard

1253
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:01,520
and what he discovered was that behind

1254
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:02,960
the pressure cooker

1255
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:07,040
and wedged in between other articles

1256
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:11,359
there was the orange washing up bow

1257
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:15,200
and it was the one that had disappeared

1258
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:17,040
from the draining board

1259
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:20,319
it still had little traces of dirty

1260
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:24,079
water in image and a few teaspoons

1261
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:27,760
so and

1262
00:58:32,309 --> 00:58:31,119
well it is because you know it has

1263
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:32,319
agreed that people

1264
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:35,440
in a in a state of distraction do put

1265
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:37,440
things in the wrong place i'm sure we've

1266
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:43,510
but think what she had to do

1267
00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:45,440
between putting the dishes in the

1268
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:46,559
cupboard and

1269
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:49,280
turning around and finding the bowl had

1270
00:58:53,589 --> 00:58:50,640
disappeared

1271
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:53,599
she would have had to move a table open

1272
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:54,240
a couple of

1273
00:58:57,990 --> 00:58:56,960
cupboard doors take out the pressure

1274
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:58,000
cooker

1275
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:01,200
push in the bowl

1276
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:04,240
um into a restricted space

1277
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:06,640
put back the pressure cooker close the

1278
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:07,680
doors

1279
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:10,880
and bring put the table back in front of

1280
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,880
them

1281
00:59:16,069 --> 00:59:14,799
i don't think you do that in the moment

1282
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:16,079
of distraction

1283
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:19,119
no no indeed

1284
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:22,160
is probably the most remarkable walk

1285
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:24,559
about of all

1286
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:27,839
well the replacement um

1287
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:31,119
walkabouts uh tend to make me feel

1288
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:35,520
like i'm crazy because i'll have a pen

1289
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:38,400
and it'll clearly say um it'll be a

1290
00:59:43,109 --> 00:59:39,040
white pen

1291
00:59:44,390 --> 00:59:43,119
and it'll say russo's lickers on it or

1292
00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:44,400
something like that

1293
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:46,799
and i'll be using it and i'll put it

1294
00:59:51,030 --> 00:59:48,640
down a ballpoint pen

1295
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:51,040
i'll walk away i'll come back and

1296
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:52,319
there's the white pen

1297
00:59:56,710 --> 00:59:54,720
and instead of saying russo's lickers it

1298
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:56,720
will have some sort of an insignia

1299
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:01,040
and say smith's garage on it or

1300
01:00:05,349 --> 01:00:02,400
something of that nature

1301
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:05,359
and and and i think yeah i must be

1302
01:00:08,230 --> 01:00:07,760
losing it you know i must just be losing

1303
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:08,240
it

1304
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:12,079
so i haven't done much to memorialize

1305
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:15,520
or to write down those kinds of jots

1306
01:00:20,549 --> 01:00:17,200
that may have occurred to me

1307
01:00:23,829 --> 01:00:20,559
because it just i i just blame my

1308
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:23,839
my my sorry brain however

1309
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:26,480
um i've had some extraordinary ones and

1310
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:28,240
perhaps the most extraordinary

1311
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:31,760
one of all is uh which the one which

1312
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:32,720
took place

1313
01:00:39,750 --> 01:00:36,400
i believe 19 years ago uh i i

1314
01:00:43,030 --> 01:00:39,760
it was less than 20 years ago

1315
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:43,040
between 18 and 20 years ago i

1316
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:46,079
was traveling uh to

1317
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:48,799
scotland the first time i was getting to

1318
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:49,760
go

1319
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:53,440
with my daughter and my husband

1320
01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:56,880
and um we my daughter

1321
01:01:03,829 --> 01:01:00,319
was at the time uh i believe

1322
01:01:07,109 --> 01:01:03,839
already in primary school

1323
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:07,119
uh and she um had

1324
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:10,799
a habit she had lots of stuffed animals

1325
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:13,440
a good a goodly number of them they were

1326
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:14,160
all on

1327
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:18,079
a deep bookshelf in her room

1328
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:21,200
and some of them she slept with at night

1329
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:23,520
some of them had names some of them

1330
01:01:27,990 --> 01:01:24,559
didn't

1331
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:28,000
um and she had a number of

1332
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:31,680
white bears and uh a white bear

1333
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:34,960
is not involved in this story at all

1334
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:38,079
but uh she had some very favorite uh

1335
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,079
stuffed animals which she preferred

1336
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:43,040
over dolls she did have dolls as well

1337
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:44,960
but she called the stuffed animals her

1338
01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:46,559
friends

1339
01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:47,420
just like me

1340
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:50,240
[Laughter]

1341
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:53,359
and so she was uh by perhaps six

1342
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:56,000
at the time uh and i would have to look

1343
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:57,440
back into my notes to

1344
01:02:01,589 --> 01:01:59,760
to ascertain that this was in fact the

1345
01:02:02,230 --> 01:02:01,599
exact age that she was but it was in

1346
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:02,240
that time

1347
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:06,240
frame and um she wanted to bring

1348
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:10,240
uh one of her um friends with her

1349
01:02:15,670 --> 01:02:13,520
and i think it was probably sox boy

1350
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:15,680
which she had since pretty much almost

1351
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:16,960
since birth

1352
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:20,160
and um was named after

1353
01:02:25,589 --> 01:02:23,200
uh a bill clinton's cat socks

1354
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:25,599
uh who was very popular in the united

1355
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:27,440
states than the cat's socks

1356
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:28,960
of course the president was reasonably

1357
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:31,359
popular as well

1358
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:33,280
but the socks was the name of the cat

1359
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:34,799
and it was a

1360
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:38,079
tuxedo cat of of mr clinton's and

1361
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:41,119
uh so this this cat which was a small

1362
01:02:47,109 --> 01:02:44,559
stuffed animal was also a tuxedo cat

1363
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:47,119
and i suggested perhaps that she should

1364
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:49,280
not bring socks boy with her

1365
01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:52,319
because god help us if she lost it on

1366
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:52,720
this

1367
01:02:57,430 --> 01:02:55,440
transatlantic flight or in one of the

1368
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:57,440
various places that we were going to

1369
01:03:03,270 --> 01:02:58,079
stay

1370
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:03,280
and we did really make quite a complete

1371
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:06,480
uh circle of scotland starting in

1372
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:07,280
edinburgh

1373
01:03:12,549 --> 01:03:10,319
and moving up the coast

1374
01:03:14,309 --> 01:03:12,559
past a variety of different stone

1375
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:14,319
circles and

1376
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:17,359
hillow stains and uh

1377
01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:21,039
islands to the north uh where scarab ray

1378
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:21,440
is

1379
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:24,480
uh and um finally down uh

1380
01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:27,760
towards um uh the uh

1381
01:03:31,990 --> 01:03:30,400
the oh the place where the giant

1382
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:32,000
vegetables grew

1383
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:35,760
finned horn and also went to

1384
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:38,960
uh geez the wonderful uh

1385
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:42,079
loch ness of the loch ness monster so

1386
01:03:45,270 --> 01:03:44,880
finally we were on the rebound of the

1387
01:03:48,390 --> 01:03:45,280
trip

1388
01:03:49,270 --> 01:03:48,400
you know the the return um the return of

1389
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:49,280
the circle

1390
01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:52,640
and we went out for two nights uh

1391
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:55,760
to a um a place called uh

1392
01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:58,400
the isle of skye which i'm sure you're

1393
01:04:02,549 --> 01:04:00,160
very familiar with i don't know if

1394
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:02,559
all americans are but it's a beautiful

1395
01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:04,000
island uh

1396
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:07,359
in the east coast of scotland

1397
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,720
and uh the west coast the west coast

1398
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:12,720
okay that's right the west coast i'm

1399
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:15,359
sorry i get my directions um

1400
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:17,760
it's not your country yes indeed the

1401
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:19,839
west coast of scotland the closest

1402
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:23,200
part to to the to the north america in

1403
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:23,680
fact

1404
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:25,680
is the west coast but it's close to the

1405
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:27,760
east coast of north america not close

1406
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:28,079
but

1407
01:04:32,710 --> 01:04:30,880
it's closest so that's i think my uh my

1408
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:32,720
confusion with the directions

1409
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:35,520
however uh well we went there and there

1410
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:36,240
was uh

1411
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:38,720
sheep shearing and all sorts of things

1412
01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:40,079
going on which was

1413
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:43,119
interesting which were interesting uh

1414
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:45,680
rosalie got to see a lot of uh different

1415
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:46,160
kinds of

1416
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:49,359
animals and more direct uh

1417
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:51,760
farm experience than she had prior to

1418
01:04:55,349 --> 01:04:52,400
that

1419
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:55,359
now what we had decided upon before

1420
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:57,359
leaving is that she would take

1421
01:05:03,670 --> 01:05:00,880
a little gray bear-like animal

1422
01:05:04,150 --> 01:05:03,680
that i don't believe had a name but it

1423
01:05:07,510 --> 01:05:04,160
was

1424
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:07,520
not similar in most ways from any other

1425
01:05:12,309 --> 01:05:08,480
of her

1426
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:12,319
stuffed animals and while she didn't

1427
01:05:15,910 --> 01:05:14,880
favorite it she also often had it on her

1428
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:15,920
bed and would be

1429
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:18,480
sleeping with it so she rather liked it

1430
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:19,760
we would say

1431
01:05:24,630 --> 01:05:22,799
and she had it during the trip and if

1432
01:05:26,789 --> 01:05:24,640
she hadn't had it she would be

1433
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:26,799
very uh disconsolate because she

1434
01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:28,160
wouldn't have had

1435
01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:30,880
a friend to sleep with a stuffed animal

1436
01:05:35,829 --> 01:05:31,760
friend

1437
01:05:37,910 --> 01:05:35,839
so there we were on the isle of skye and

1438
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:37,920
we were staying with a woman

1439
01:05:44,069 --> 01:05:40,960
in a bed and breakfast type situation

1440
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:44,079
in a rather small room with

1441
01:05:52,230 --> 01:05:47,440
one double bed and one cot uh

1442
01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:52,240
for rosalie and um there were

1443
01:05:56,789 --> 01:05:55,680
there we were and it was kind of i would

1444
01:05:59,190 --> 01:05:56,799
say

1445
01:06:00,789 --> 01:05:59,200
cramped in that room it was quite nice

1446
01:06:01,750 --> 01:06:00,799
and nothing wrong with it but it was

1447
01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:01,760
tight

1448
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:04,480
for three people and i also remember

1449
01:06:08,069 --> 01:06:05,599
oddly

1450
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:08,079
that it was set down from the ground

1451
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:08,960
level

1452
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:12,319
uh if you looked out the window or

1453
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:14,880
stepped out the door this ro this room

1454
01:06:19,589 --> 01:06:16,240
would have been like a

1455
01:06:22,390 --> 01:06:19,599
foot set down like a foot below

1456
01:06:24,390 --> 01:06:22,400
uh the surface of the ground no lower

1457
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:24,400
ground floor we'd call that

1458
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:27,680
yes and i don't know i don't remember

1459
01:06:30,789 --> 01:06:29,760
whether there was more than one floor in

1460
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:30,799
this

1461
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:32,960
modest home which was very clean very

1462
01:06:38,309 --> 01:06:34,880
nice the woman was nice

1463
01:06:40,710 --> 01:06:38,319
and she was a grandma and um it sort of

1464
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:40,720
uh had a permanent wave you know very

1465
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:41,440
typical

1466
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:45,680
uh sort of looking grandmotherly person

1467
01:06:48,789 --> 01:06:47,920
and a very pleasant and very nice to my

1468
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:48,799
daughter

1469
01:06:55,510 --> 01:06:52,319
um and after we left and went

1470
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:55,520
on to our last stop which was glasgow

1471
01:07:02,069 --> 01:06:58,640
uh it became clear that

1472
01:07:05,109 --> 01:07:02,079
rosalie had left the bottom

1473
01:07:08,470 --> 01:07:05,119
of her pajamas and this

1474
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:08,480
a little stuffed animal behind

1475
01:07:12,789 --> 01:07:12,160
and i was i i was sad about it i mean

1476
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:12,799
the

1477
01:07:17,349 --> 01:07:16,000
pajamas weren't anything special but i

1478
01:07:19,270 --> 01:07:17,359
felt that i would off

1479
01:07:21,430 --> 01:07:19,280
i would when i got home i would offer

1480
01:07:23,589 --> 01:07:21,440
the woman uh postage and

1481
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:23,599
a little bit more if she wouldn't mind

1482
01:07:29,750 --> 01:07:25,680
sending it back

1483
01:07:31,430 --> 01:07:29,760
um and uh so two days later we got on

1484
01:07:34,150 --> 01:07:31,440
the plane and at the

1485
01:07:36,230 --> 01:07:34,160
airport closest to edinburgh and headed

1486
01:07:38,950 --> 01:07:36,240
back for the us of a

1487
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,960
and when i uh wrote we opened the door

1488
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:40,480
to rosalie's room

1489
01:07:48,390 --> 01:07:44,160
on the bed was her stuffed animal

1490
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:48,400
ah this little gray um

1491
01:07:52,230 --> 01:07:50,240
sort of teddy bear-ish sort of thing but

1492
01:07:55,349 --> 01:07:52,240
it's not the straightforward teddy bear

1493
01:07:59,109 --> 01:07:55,359
it's sort of like a a variant

1494
01:08:01,270 --> 01:07:59,119
and it's kind of important because

1495
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:01,280
i was particular about bringing

1496
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:03,280
something that wasn't just another white

1497
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:04,079
bear because

1498
01:08:07,990 --> 01:08:06,400
for whatever reason she had a three or

1499
01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:08,000
four of those and i said well why don't

1500
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:09,520
we take this one

1501
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:11,680
and um there was there are none other

1502
01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:13,359
like it and i haven't seen any other

1503
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:15,520
like it but i do still have

1504
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:18,080
that particular article and the

1505
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:21,120
interesting thing is that her father

1506
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:24,239
uh like many of your people in in the

1507
01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:25,040
book

1508
01:08:31,669 --> 01:08:29,199
um jot uh at this point i don't remember

1509
01:08:32,550 --> 01:08:31,679
that i don't remember that as having

1510
01:08:35,829 --> 01:08:32,560
happened

1511
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:35,839
well she and i know it did happen

1512
01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:37,600
and she would have been bereft the

1513
01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:39,920
entire trip without a stuffed animal

1514
01:08:43,669 --> 01:08:41,679
and that was the one in fact she did

1515
01:08:46,950 --> 01:08:43,679
bring but it did turn up

1516
01:08:49,749 --> 01:08:46,960
on on her uh on her bed

1517
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:49,759
when we returned oh that's fascinating

1518
01:08:53,590 --> 01:08:51,040
well

1519
01:08:54,789 --> 01:08:53,600
it's rather like the story of the black

1520
01:08:58,149 --> 01:08:54,799
corset isn't it

1521
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:58,159
yes but of course the um

1522
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:01,120
yes i suppose the black corset meant the

1523
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:03,120
same to van loon's mother

1524
01:09:10,789 --> 01:09:07,120
as your um not quite a white bear

1525
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:10,799
to your child yes

1526
01:09:13,829 --> 01:09:13,440
yeah that's that's a very nice story did

1527
01:09:18,550 --> 01:09:13,839
you

1528
01:09:21,430 --> 01:09:18,560
ever ascertain from the um

1529
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:21,440
the the boarding house lady in the in

1530
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:23,040
sky

1531
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:26,080
that it it wasn't there

1532
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:29,520
um i did write her um

1533
01:09:34,789 --> 01:09:32,560
an email i think it was an email at that

1534
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:34,799
point in time i'm quite sure

1535
01:09:38,309 --> 01:09:38,000
email wasn't quite what it is today but

1536
01:10:22,630 --> 01:09:38,319
i

1537
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:22,640
the pajamas were of not great value and

1538
01:10:26,390 --> 01:10:24,239
when you have a growing child

1539
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:26,400
the pajamas that fit them at six don't

1540
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:27,520
necessarily

1541
01:10:33,910 --> 01:10:31,440
fit them at seven and uh

1542
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:33,920
that's a fascinating story and you

1543
01:10:40,070 --> 01:10:36,480
really felt sure you could identify

1544
01:10:43,189 --> 01:10:40,080
the uh um the not quite a bear

1545
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,199
yes and i still have the item uh

1546
01:10:46,470 --> 01:10:45,520
oddly enough really yeah i still have

1547
01:10:49,990 --> 01:10:46,480
the item and

1548
01:10:50,950 --> 01:10:50,000
um you know uh would be pleased to

1549
01:10:58,790 --> 01:10:50,960
display

1550
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:58,800
yeah well that is a really fascinating

1551
01:11:02,870 --> 01:10:59,760
story

1552
01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:02,880
it's um yes i mean

1553
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:06,159
immediately i thought of the the flying

1554
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:08,239
corset but of course it's also rather

1555
01:11:12,149 --> 01:11:08,880
like the

1556
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:12,159
um the alarm clock that

1557
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:16,000
that came back indeed

1558
01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:17,920
was there a double on the alarm clock or

1559
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:20,640
am i misremembering

1560
01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:24,320
um well now what happened was

1561
01:11:32,790 --> 01:11:28,320
the lady went to latvia with her

1562
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:32,800
rather common place alarm clock

1563
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:36,719
and packed it she's quite certain on the

1564
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:38,159
way home

1565
01:11:41,830 --> 01:11:40,400
when she was coming home but when she

1566
01:11:44,870 --> 01:11:41,840
opened her case

1567
01:11:46,709 --> 01:11:44,880
it was the wrong clock right truck was

1568
01:11:50,149 --> 01:11:46,719
slightly different

1569
01:11:52,310 --> 01:11:50,159
and it didn't work and

1570
01:11:54,390 --> 01:11:52,320
you know it has all the hallmarks of

1571
01:11:55,830 --> 01:11:54,400
somebody having changed the clocks at

1572
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:55,840
the last moment

1573
01:12:01,910 --> 01:11:59,120
and her not noticing but

1574
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:01,920
that was not the answer because i think

1575
01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:02,560
uh

1576
01:12:07,189 --> 01:12:06,000
a week or so later when she went into

1577
01:12:14,310 --> 01:12:07,199
her

1578
01:12:18,550 --> 01:12:14,320
clock sitting in the middle of the floor

1579
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:18,560
and so she then had two clocks

1580
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:21,360
[Laughter]

1581
01:12:26,229 --> 01:12:24,239
yes and i mostly i like the way it was

1582
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:26,239
in the middle of the floor

1583
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,239
you know a place where she would have

1584
01:12:34,470 --> 01:12:30,480
walked in and out

1585
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:34,480
you know um teen times well

1586
01:12:40,870 --> 01:12:37,840
these things are just amazing and um

1587
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:40,880
if we can suspend this belief

1588
01:12:47,430 --> 01:12:44,400
i think we can discover that more of

1589
01:12:50,950 --> 01:12:47,440
more jodles happen than

1590
01:12:53,430 --> 01:12:50,960
we've heretofore thought about

1591
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:53,440
and i want you to mention one more time

1592
01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:55,440
before we go

1593
01:13:00,550 --> 01:12:58,239
the book the publisher where to get it

1594
01:13:05,189 --> 01:13:00,560
oh yes the apartment of the publisher

1595
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:05,199
is anomalous anomalous books

1596
01:13:11,990 --> 01:13:09,840
and yes i think amazon is probably

1597
01:13:13,510 --> 01:13:12,000
the only place you'll get it though

1598
01:13:17,110 --> 01:13:13,520
amazon does

1599
01:13:20,470 --> 01:13:17,120
um use other sites too

1600
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:20,480
at least i'm talking about amazon uk i

1601
01:13:27,110 --> 01:13:23,840
didn't look on the amazon um

1602
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:27,120
you know the american site uh

1603
01:13:31,030 --> 01:13:29,920
but um i think that's that's the only

1604
01:13:33,830 --> 01:13:31,040
way you get it it's

1605
01:13:35,350 --> 01:13:33,840
it's not going to be displayed in

1606
01:13:39,510 --> 01:13:35,360
bookshops

1607
01:13:43,430 --> 01:13:39,520
well um i hope it becomes a bestseller

1608
01:13:45,910 --> 01:13:43,440
and is in every bookshop across

1609
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:45,920
across the english-speaking world and

1610
01:13:50,310 --> 01:13:46,640
further

1611
01:13:54,470 --> 01:13:52,470
yes well thank you very much for being

1612
01:13:57,270 --> 01:13:54,480
on shattered reality

1613
01:13:59,110 --> 01:13:57,280
and uh i would i bid you a fond farewell

1614
01:14:01,830 --> 01:13:59,120
and hope you will come on again

1615
01:14:02,950 --> 01:14:01,840
sometime soon well i certainly enjoyed

1616
01:14:05,430 --> 01:14:02,960
talking to you

1617
01:14:06,550 --> 01:14:05,440
thank you for having me oh my pleasure

1618
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:06,560
bye now

1619
01:14:13,030 --> 01:14:09,600
hi well folks um that was

1620
01:14:16,149 --> 01:14:13,040
uh the wonderful mary rose

1621
01:14:18,870 --> 01:14:16,159
barrington from great britain who

1622
01:14:20,070 --> 01:14:18,880
discussed with us these nominal

1623
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:20,080
anomalous

1624
01:14:26,070 --> 01:14:23,920
situations involving jot

1625
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:26,080
just one of those things things that

1626
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:28,800
materialize and dematerialize

1627
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:31,679
in our very presence and are sometimes

1628
01:14:35,669 --> 01:14:33,120
overlooked

1629
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:35,679
or we sometimes make excuses for why

1630
01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:37,600
these things happen

1631
01:14:46,470 --> 01:14:42,480
um next up on shattered reality podcast

1632
01:14:49,590 --> 01:14:46,480
we will have a return

1633
01:14:52,070 --> 01:14:49,600
visitor and um

1634
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:52,080
this gentleman has been on the show

1635
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:53,280
before

1636
01:15:00,310 --> 01:14:57,679
his name is mac maloney he comes to us

1637
01:15:02,709 --> 01:15:00,320
from not so far away as mary rose he

1638
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:02,719
comes to us from the boston area

1639
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:05,440
and he's written a new book and he will

1640
01:15:08,790 --> 01:15:05,760
be

1641
01:15:11,669 --> 01:15:08,800
on with us on our next show

1642
01:15:13,110 --> 01:15:11,679
we have received um a lot of new

1643
01:15:17,350 --> 01:15:13,120
subscribers

1644
01:15:21,430 --> 01:15:17,360
on youtube and uh so i would ask you

1645
01:15:24,310 --> 01:15:21,440
all to uh look at our various

1646
01:15:25,590 --> 01:15:24,320
uh sources of our various places where

1647
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:25,600
we can be

1648
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:29,120
heard and listened to 24 7

1649
01:15:32,470 --> 01:15:32,080
any day of the week any time of the day

1650
01:15:35,590 --> 01:15:32,480
we

1651
01:15:42,750 --> 01:15:35,600
have um shattered

1652
01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:44,550
shatteredrealitypodcast.com

1653
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:48,239
we have an itunes channel

1654
01:15:54,709 --> 01:15:51,520
we are on stitcher and we are on

1655
01:15:57,990 --> 01:15:54,719
youtube so please like us

1656
01:15:58,870 --> 01:15:58,000
on any of these venues comment if you'd

1657
01:16:02,470 --> 01:15:58,880
like

1658
01:16:03,110 --> 01:16:02,480
um you can comment in public or directly

1659
01:16:06,229 --> 01:16:03,120
to me

1660
01:16:08,229 --> 01:16:06,239
at ferruccia farousha.com and

1661
01:16:10,070 --> 01:16:08,239
lately a lot of people have been

1662
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:10,080
commenting privately

1663
01:16:13,990 --> 01:16:12,800
which is fine but you need to let me

1664
01:16:16,870 --> 01:16:14,000
know whether i can

1665
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:16,880
share what you've written publicly or

1666
01:16:20,790 --> 01:16:17,520
not

1667
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:20,800
because i'm kind of uh i'm the kind of a

1668
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:22,080
person who is

1669
01:16:26,070 --> 01:16:25,679
a private person in many ways and i do

1670
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:26,080
not

1671
01:16:32,950 --> 01:16:29,679
want to uh in any way

1672
01:16:34,790 --> 01:16:32,960
uh distract from your privacy or or ruin

1673
01:16:35,350 --> 01:16:34,800
your privacy so please if you're writing

1674
01:16:38,470 --> 01:16:35,360
to me

1675
01:16:39,590 --> 01:16:38,480
privately but i'm allowed to say things

1676
01:16:42,470 --> 01:16:39,600
publicly

1677
01:16:43,430 --> 01:16:42,480
please make a note of that or else just

1678
01:16:46,870 --> 01:16:43,440
write them

1679
01:16:49,350 --> 01:16:46,880
on the comments section of one of

1680
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:49,360
our outlets there and then i will know

1681
01:16:53,830 --> 01:16:50,239
that it is

1682
01:16:56,910 --> 01:16:53,840
for all intents and purposes public

1683
01:17:00,830 --> 01:16:56,920
okay so now

1684
01:17:08,030 --> 01:17:00,840
goodbye from shattered